What do you think you're doing in the pan or, um, the oven? Uh, I think for this, because we're at the pan. Yeah, right? Yeah. Okay. something else for the oven? Yeah. Yeah, we' put some peppers the peppers. know what the fuck? shit, I chicken. Yeah, because I didn't get in my mind is there's a There's a great need for. the network, those who are deep into philosophy and intellectual complexity, cultural work, et cetera, that have a really deep grasp on the archlebal stuff that is that is happening, what's happening in culture or the stages of development needs to look like, and you know, me and Lawrence have read a bunch of books and this is the podcasts and stuff from from these fels. And we have a grasp on what it is that they're saying. But I still don't think you have quite the capacity alone to to make a really robust philosophy and strategy in which that philosophy becomes its own memetic force. I think things like your and the UNMmys is a great way being able to develop that distinction, that can actually integrate the observations that you've see, and what does work and what does it work and parts to be aware of and attention to. The tree comparted then sometime when you see is things don't walk for a very specific reason. But there is no sort. Because there is a reason why is a four can it has been a party walking and learning about this, most of me thatate to the power to change. No, not necessarily, but it definitely would be impossible without learning about, you know, we're not learning. It's not even learning any awareness. It more. Look, how we on this does it means to change? No, that's true. That's true. That's why I would say it. That's why the commitment and enourage from the the scene itself is such a whole creal component. so that we they finally thising? Because right now we are speaking about, like c to explain what to me. By the scene? Yes. Yeah. I mean, like,. I mean, the network of people that are engaged in cultural transformation, social transformation, things like how the ship our paradigms, how to ship culture, how is culture influence? inlexity theory, the kind of largest meta scale problems in space, I would say, people learned. We create regeneration, for a ground to the reality of what actually on the tradeoffs and what is the problem entirely? I mean that's where I've got my confency seeing that there are those who are out there thinking about this in a way that is like you don't happening in lots of other organizations where it'used with countries. And I would maybe sort of scare it down a little bit more sort of the networks of those who are around our age as well. Those who have like maximum agency between the different generations. where they sit between technology, you know, that's where there may be a fair amount of interest in things like where three and sovereignty digital networks and currency and things like this, because it's representation of planning a new rebellion against the world that is and the world that we want to see the world. is coming more railway. So now you can continue about what you were speaking about the scene and how she worked for this. Yeah, I guess, well, so in that way, if we have I somewhat imagine it as the sooner or later, we will evolve into a form of an organ organization or an organism, where we have where you want to actually operate and affect the world, rather than just be a collection of people that being similarly would be working in various teams self organized structures, temporary structures, but we have this, like up level capacity that. might mirror a an agency, but something that has like multiple ways of being able to sustain itself, able to interact with the world as it is and why at the same time being able toord this new way of doing things. That's kind of where I see us heading to, and that most of the people that we know and spend most of our time with are likely going to be desired and valuable within that network. So But I only see us actually getting there by there being a sort of co commitment to that that scene and seeing this.. seeing the potential that is held there and continuously making adjustments and nudges and proms in that direction. everyone. So in that way, the significance and relevance of that group is recognized by the group itself, and it has a anti fragility in how people are showing up in that network and providing for each other and being able to take ins off of each other's plate and being able to go through emotional processes and self development on the path, where you need to have that development on the scale of culture, while at the same time being able to do it on the individual level so that somebody is coming in there, they're able to process whatever might have brought them into the network but may not be serving them going forward, you know, but I think that's a lot of a lot of the time when when you have such a disposition to want to change the world and move it into a different place, it then also comes with this baggage of, you, relationships and our relationship to family or authority or the state or whatever, like these things are just unaddressed, then it means that we we're constantly coming from this against murder, as opposed to being able to see the truth between those three things. So in that way, I kind of imagine something akin to it's like a learning journey, co initiation, pathway games, that what we're able to provide to people as this ongoing developmental experience where they are able to understand the metchanism of community building and collaboration and working together and using our imination and at ourposal, I don'timate In that way, as. It's somewhat of a recognition of a hierarchy of wisdom, you know, you have an elders that are able to constantly reorientate a frame with mind in terms of how things are being done and have this kind of fluid pathway from the brain intellectual philosophical down to be practical, what I see here is representation of a way of being that we are expressing in space together that is demonstrating a future culture. And that's why I would say that I'm going by the intuition that everyone who is here is representing some form of that way of being or representing some form of that they have a piece of deposit, you know, and so maybe there is a very important question around personal sovereignty and personal sort of like intention and thinking that you're or maybe the role of this kind of tester and grower communities that that perhaps also needs to be recognized in the same way that the six to are be necessarily be recognized. Maybe it another sham of the way that is that provides something. We put off GA, what you got to save myself. The way of being operating the drama you cross, you saw the way you interacting people, is completely uncaled the tri store. as a way of showing whole disease, the future of interaction, maybe, all a way of being in the world that purp the future future. I would say that the reaction to the trick stuff is the representation of new culture. So the way people react to you is the future? Yeah, that's a representation of your way of being your ability to be able to handle the unknown and how the community and culture responds as an immune response. How is the community actually act in a sort of, like a light crisis what is that the future? Why is that the future of culture? Yeah. I would say that it represents a certain sensibility to accepting what comes. There's an engagement with reconciliation. community process, being kind of trans that energy, if it like so, for instance, what I will do is much like you, I will go to a space, and then if I notice that the space has a lot of stagnant properties to it, but it's thinking that it's going to do something ambitious thing, then I will challenge those things that I'm seeing, but I'll do it in a very different way to how I say you're doing it, and that it's not that I just observe, give them the information that they need and then step back and like allow them and then don't come from any, like needing the thing to be received. Instead, this is like, I'm disrupting the process in the directionality that it needs to go in, trying to demonstrate the kind of pathway that is worth moving for and in that destruction also demonstrating and sort of testing the waters to see how that community is responds to something that is is not allowing the the sort of default so on fault, you know, it's now creating some kind of drama or difference and it's holding foss to something. And that then creates this this ship. So this, for instance, this happened in traditional dreaming factor in Portport, where I was there for for a while and I was like. We is atom of the tricksange to the end, didn't really, the only things that kind of caused the crisis to unfold was just so some elements of recording of people's privacy and stuff that the naturally arises to anywhere in New York when you're doing recording. So it's very, I try to be as light tucked as possible in how I play with boundaries. So that brings people into this recognition of how they, how they relate to boundaries and relate to space, et cetera. It's like.. And if the community respons with just an ejection process and then this is this person is a problem, we need to get rid of the problem. Let's just get rid of the problem. Then they fail. Like, they don't have a resilience. There's no ability for anyone to come in there, bring something that a group of them want to hear and then they're interrate it and respond to it, because if there is if something is out of place and sort of holding to some perspective, and there is no metabolization, then it creates this field of sort of delusion and on ability to be responsive and adaptive and and doesn't show that it has a community process to be able to handle this agreement and different. So in that way, it's a little bit like going into the place in which there is the most similarity, and then demonstrating the difference, the thing that is not yet to be integrated or the shadow and then in the reaction process, that is a test of that community to see how it responds. And by doing that we repeat, what does it do? It basically tells me the readiness of each community or space, and it also generates a story. So it gives like a prioritization of where I can give my recommendation. You know, I want to be able to say,Th is. I want these be residians. I want them to be able to do what they say they want to do I want to give them great capacity, et cetera. But maybe it's more than just money than they need. Maybe they actually need to integrate certain concepts or they need to be they need to actually practice their community resolution processes or whatever it is. And so the story unfolds as he does, and I'm not attached to, however, the story unfolds, but in that story and what happens exists ages. Either a recommendation for that route or a very pointed take on how it needs to check. It's like it's shown its real colors in that story. And because the behavior itself similar is that the things that I would like to be bringing into that community will be the same things that I will be trying to shift ourselves up in this environment, like how we interact with with coordinating each other, how we interact with each other between each other missions, and sharing power between, how we with chirarchy in a dynamic sense, and how we both our attention. All of these things will be demonstrated in the acts, in the thing that I'm bringing. So I'm kind of softly giving them the code of how how to shift from passage to active as it all. Does it work in that they integrate the person and immediately we become a activated network? No, I would say it definitely doesn't.. It does the role of demonstrating the community is functioning, you know, and it gives me a way of being able to tell the narrative about that that space and say, what they did it, you know, it did perform well and they were able to kind of respond in a way that. But just the thing was they don't need an ar. They need a process. Yeah. So if are just going to tricks extract theiv about whole thing through all. You just creating situations so that you can speak about it. can conversation. That does not add anything to. The forces of making tool. It's kind of, it would do, but it's it's only on the larger It's also operating on a larger scale. So it's not just thinking about that community in particular and being like, how can I immediately help this community? It's sort of thinking about it in terms of like, how because a lot of the time it's reflected in other communities as well. It's not often it's often not just that one community, the same story can be applied in different cases. And so the it is presenting an argument, actually. You're right about that. But Do they need arguments or do they need people for? I mean, many things that work, do they're not going to be able to get things at work just by meelling them what to do. They're not even necessarily going to listen to me nowadays. Like, I don't automatically have their authority. If I had a big following of people, and I was going to be talkingers and I was going on podcasts or, then I would have a different level of property, and they might actually I might be able to go there and be like, right, this is what you need to do, this is what blah, blah, and then they would be able to adapt themselves with themselves. So what's your strategy? Do you want to stick withance, to play the role of the picture? Do you want to get more sonty and authority yourself so you can apply directly what you are talking about? I mean, I would say that there is the authority I worried you received the authority for myself, but that authority is not anything without there being somebody else that is certainly not concern bit., I just want to take a little while. No, I mean, this is the difference, is that you you do you perform the trickster out in the world and it is just mental illness. That is just what I' seen. You you know, there is no was no reason to it. There was a valueator. What I'm doing with Lawrence is and with this the ar, the original art has value is because we are because of what we are what is promised we really are, what we are we believe is possible through the art. It's not so much that, like, people just take it for as their quality alone, it's it's more that if we are right, then this will be valuable and then're able to interact with our exception of that value and our belief in its arrival. And so in that way, I would say that the strategy is essentially one whole, being able to provide at any point, more pressure and at the same time, capacity into certain spaces and groups. That's how I see it. The approach is to create attention and attraction and then direct it to certain bases. So if I believe that the traditional green factory has a good basis of how to be able to receive that energy and attention and interest in funding of whatever it is, if they if they are well aligned, and you're not going to collapse, then I can. I direct that attention over there and know that it's going to be protected. It's going to be worthwhile and that there's got hours that' block. And so what I'm doing is I'm kind of challenging the authority if I'm doing this way, doing this stuff this space. You know, it's like there will need to be a response from the group. There't need to be a response from the leader. It's also a proof of leadership as well. Somebody has to kind of like, challenge me because I'm disrupting what's what's going on there. So it also indicates, right, okay, who is is this thing making decisions? Who's responsible? How do they show up in those kind of times? This is a better because there's.. If I just. What I see is that I can give this gift to them what I want I'm there, I'll be filming the entire place. I'll be making sure that I'm trying to represent the value of what they're doing. So that I can be able to distribute that recognition to the rest of the world. And in that way, it's like I am somewhat taken transmitted to the rest of the world. as in the how do people find out about it and how do people hear about this stuff? Yeah, like she said, you recitian. that to be transmitted to the rest of so you can transmit that to the rest of always. Right. Right, right. If that would happen through the meteor itself, like, in the sense that there is, I'm I see myself as creative as collecting the most valuable people on the client, and the ideas are their generating, and then bringing that outwards based on their own capacity and vulnerability and willing us to be seen. And in that way, there's stuff right there. Yeah. For example, here just working about the archive. Yeah, For example, I ask about the thinking about the the roads and stuff like that. Right. Right. And you also refer to this thing like you want to do a car. system for the exchange of being seen in the world. And here you broke about making people be seen in the world from Gnifolk. Yeah, but there is too many conflicting things going on there. Okay. It's like. It was. You have a very specific process that asks people to be committed to advanc provision. In the other hand, you are's a new that other women's refuse to speak to the world. You are. You act in a way that creates more disturbles than clarity? Yes. So none of this is leading to a world what you are talking about. Do you don't think, what? Why do you it's not? Because you act as a trickster as trying to play with your shadows. So does not tell people express themselves. recall that there is no few sharing of poster at all it is confined to a very specific process of future castcraft or. It's not immediately. like there's too many loops, topic city that are useless and there is disruption. This is the opposite of a 15, yeah. There is no process where like here. I feel like people coming in and they are getting better. they're coming in. And it's so like. They come and there is chaos and they have to find out what the idea with that. Yeah, yeah. None of this is displaying either the future, either clarity, neither showing to the wall of whatever. I feel like your process is too indirect. Like, you wear from your communication, your well being, you are too indirect. Yeah. Like, you don't really directly speak your mind, your eyes out, you can in a way that he's trying to extract things out of people. But that does not really state. So you have to ask yourself, if the rule that you play is not doing that if before. What is exactly the function that you're playing? If you are only acting as a disrupper and the battle that has been observed, it's juice being a trickster, being a challenger, but. Well, that alone wouldn't be much of a you wouldn't be able to be able to do much with just playing the trickster. Trick is great for being able to bring attention to the boundaries that we we have, the implicit hierarchies that exist, the ways in which we might be thinking about things from the wrong lens or might be missing something not integrating something. That's for you need leadership, you also need to be older. There's no point in your I. my entire intention throughout this whole residency is just to be a disrupter and a trickster, then like, what am I do. I am responsible for this. Like, there is is a need for me to lead the process in some way. because Lawrence has a lot of the vision, but he doesn't have so much of exactly how to get there. that I feel like I'm holding it in terms of the amount of work that I'm doing and how I'm taking on these so many of these roles at the same time. So I need to be able to impart over what we've got so far and we get us into a place in which we can be doing something different from what's before. But I've totally see how it just looks as though everything is fucking chaos. There is there is destruction, there is a high emotions, drama, all this sort of shit. It's something it looks like a fucking failure. But that's what I would say that is I see that, I see what's going on as the transformational process. I'm seeing it from a different light in the things that are happening on the micro are of great significance. I'm not necessarily looking at it purely for, okay, everybody, I would like to be able to help everyone here. I am up to me, I am uplifting them in them just being seen. They don't need so much improvement in terms of who they are. The tweaks are small. You can continue to do these kind of residencies and do crafting and upleveling, our speaking. We'll get better at that, but little will you really good. So from my mind, me making sure that I am enabling the ability for these people to be seen, directly not nuts. No, I am doing that with the camera. I'm doing that with the filming. I'm not.m not uplifting them immediately so they come out of the space and then they feel uplifted.. What's the point does that happen where you see? And especially your two current disturbance, which are already sort of is an attack on communication and now helping them being clarified. Number two, you said that you're not looking at the micro, for example, all of the drama coming here, you see this as a proof of transformation. I mean, I just it as part of the transformation process. But why were the transformation like that? Because it's happening on the between people. It's happening between it's a relationship between me and Lawrence. What is that different from the drama, from a couple or from Normar people. I would say, because it's based on our relationship to this grandiosity and the ambition of the vision. She's up on the. I don't know if there's many networks that are quite operating at this level of of assumption of massive transformative impact, and the ability to hold that thing that probably looks like delusion to a lot of people. I don't see that as being that many people that are playing with that kind of grandiosity in my mind. I think this is very common. You think they' okay? Yes. Okay. And this is why I'm asking, you law. It's like you think that growosity justify the chaos? No, no, I wouldn't say the grandiosity justifies the chaos, so I would say that this is the. The way I'm seeing the chaos is based on the fact that there is a. It is going to look chaotic near the beginning, because because of the foundations. I think that's how I'm seeing it is that what I'm doing right now is laying the foundations in the foundations need to be strong. And if the foundations are are about me and my relationship with Lawrence, Lawrence's relationship with authority, and Jeremy's role that he's playing with that space, and we need to go through some emotional work, to be able to go transmute that, then that takes priority over that it can be chaos at home, all of the residents can all not know what the fuck's going on and we can be doing this thing because I see the value in these people that I'm working with. I see the value of what we're working to. I see this, I see this as working. So I don't need to feel as though I need to prove that it's working in terms of how it feels for the residents and what they know and how they're experiencing and what their narrative links up with my narrative, I'm okay to just have my own totally different perspective on how this thing is there is a deep problem here because basically what you're saying is you care about currents and Jeremy relationship that you have with them and you don't and the fers happen on tou risk kind of So number one, there is no true connection or vision of bridge. Number two, G3 helping and helping them communicate and be themselves, number three. There is no outer visibility number four, you out chaos and does not produce anything because you are focused on that nucleus of people. Yes, exactly. And so you cannot say, I want to bring you all your particular you only care about that relationship. And then everything that happen as Kles around, you're like, if it's about, it's helping desper relationship, it's like, I don't care. So it's like, as a leader, this makes no sense. This make sense. You tell me, you tell me someone who joined the next walk and that's our leadership style, I' be like. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't. Do you see is all your Jewish leadership? You come in or do you feel, do you feel clearer, better? Do you have a better outcome after I leave this one? This is how you use leadership. You come, is the process of becoming into a leader. It's not a leadership. It's not. This is not an example of leadership. Like, me and Lawrence need to go. So this part of this is based on future future transformation. Pres transformation, present transformation is going on now. I'm seeking the present transformation that is necessary for us to have the foundation. Foundation will leadership become leaders, be able to act as leaders, and then then we can lead. But we can't do that unless if there is something to be done between that, then that takes priority. And it takes priority in a certain order. It's not that I don't care about your experience as the residency, whether you feel like you've been heard, whether Jane knows is doing something that's aligned to us or whether Hermes, it's important for me to, you know, I feel like I didn't do the kind of job that I would like to have done on the podcast that you guys have made. You know, I think it would have been beneficial for me to really take that on as a kind of like, okay, let's make sure all of this stuff is totally where we've got everything covered, we make sure this is the training camp for you, Rans Unfortunately. But not just not just. It's just that there's there's a prioritization of how I can care for different things because I'm not thinking about just caring for your experience right now. I'm also wanting to care for you ongoing into the future in terms of being able to continueously bring the gifts that you need to into the world. So in that way, it's not that I'm saying, okay, I don't want it's just that there's I'm prioritizing it. I'm seeing it within the heart, the necessary hierarchy that it is. And so as soon as night is covered, now that I feel like we've gone through that process with me and Jeremy and Lawrence and there's still some things to be able to solve, but now the priority is not Lawrence. It is now Kevin. It is now you. It is it is And Jay is a lower property than you, because Jay is a already agentic, he's already doing a bunch of things, he's already testing out some stuff. There is an alignment that needs to happen. There is a we need to have our own process, but you take priority over him because of the leverage that you have, because of the experience that you have, because of the depth of what you have, and because it's a more obvious kind of place of difference than these resolve. But it's it's a shame that I haven't been able to give it the priority that I think it needs up until now, but that is. So tell me how does people that do not have leadership as supposed to read other people. Right. And then be the zone of or transformation of future. All ladies become. That's that's the difficult part. The people that we're bringing in here do not necessarily see themselves as leaders, do not act as leaders, do not are not already in a position where they can be leaders. And so we need to go from the place that they are in which there is this kind of uncertess, potentially with some around, you know, stepping into their leadership capacity or taking on responsibility, or maybe there's maybe it's the relationship to authority that's doing it, or maybe they's just not exposing themselves to the world or whatever it is, but they in, from my perspective, they have the right temperament and sensibilities to become leaders, but there needs to be a transformational process. There needs to be needs to be a way in which we can begin to be an example of how we we wanting to. Yeah, but the program is not the participance. It's You don't have the Yoshi, no. I. I think we have the capacity for potential leadership. It's not about the. Do you have it or not? Yeah, you don't think me and Lawrence or any good at leading processes or all sort of a project, I guess. If the is what it is right now, then the res speak for. Yeah, yeah. If you just look at the results, then you face on this, you will be right.. We teach you to the things we said. This is repeated. It's not like, oh, this is the first time and we have no idea what could have happened. And this is a new pattern and we just experiment for the first time. That's not the case. Yeah, is already been other rad or the sort of evidence, all the things. So this is a repeated thing. And now you are asking some people that may have different background or capacity or vision, let's say like me. Hey, can you follow us? We just keep making the same thing over and over again. We are not really sure when our leadership is gonna come. It's. And we are supposed to be interested in our project, in our vision and new vision is, yeah, we will try to understand maybe somehow. And it's like it doesn't make any singular sense. It doesn't boost, breed up a meteor rates anything. And yeah, so this is kind of the of the things that is being presented here. I think it think it will make sense. It will make sense. In a sense, well, I would say that this is the process that that we're going through now is us moving into this new new form of capacity. So we are already making strides in terms of how we are able to able to coordinate on some of the larger strategy components, we already have so much of it mapped out. Most of this element of the archive and the transmission of the archive, the interface, these are all very solvable problems, but it is this process of reconciling with this strategy and with this transformation and this change, it is also relevant to the scene. ICS has also activating the scene at the same time as it's doing this, because the story itself can be a demonstration of that leadership. It can make a point. It can be able to show what that happens. Right thing is proof of the thing is what doesn't work. Yeah, these guys are just fucking.. It's tomorrow. someone hire me that, okay, can you do a report? And this, this, this, and that? And one of the thing they ask is, okay, what happened in this residency? does this lead the liar web or people involved in vity or a new form of community does where does this lead? An ar There is a lot of therapy or, there is a lot of emotion going on, there is a lot of chaos. There are very little things that are done. They cannot push you to follow some kind of plan of things, the communication is very unclear. The vision is Scoutic. The future is uncertain, and the only people that are willing to stay and tolerate us are people, magrants, who want this kind of characteristic. And everybody here is gonna come and so for leave or be like, okay, we're not go back to soft like this. or something like that. And there would be a kind of burnout effect of any outside of that scr. So for the future, how is that boat? It means that's two, if future run our comic they will tell you the same thing. And they will experience the same thing. I don't think they would experience the same thing. I mean, this is I see us as we are developing each time that we're doing this. I see that what I did at this because I did this before, where I ran a residency in Morse. Morse is this place in there's also a community space in Suffolk from very similar problems, much larger space, lost more more going on, lots of events. Everything was super fucking chaotic. Nobody knew anything. All the information was just held with there's one guy, couldn't really communicate with other people. It was it was super messy. And I ran a residency in that space that also looked messy and was if you just heard stories from it from people there or you'd think it was a total fucking disaster. the residents laughed like, you know, I was had to cover all this money for the rooms and et cetera. Like if you just looked at it from., what's your? The positive outcome is that the stuff that I'm playing with, when applied, because I'm I'm less now focused on the actual experience of the residents themselves and making sure everything goes the way it needs to go and make sure it doesn't look like a failure. And I'm now interacting with the actual transformative power of the stuff that I have available to me. And that then changes how I'm interacting with it, and it. I'm now interacting on a different scale, but because it is a self similarity in these scales, it means as you scale, you're able to to move so much quicker and you are able to improve so much quicker. So that's why I was saying like this future model that comes in, they will see the shift in the capacity, the change in how this and how this operates because we are going to get there. We are on that path, and I can see how this stuff is together, but it is going to be messy in the beginning because we need to create this foundation that needs to be this established foundation, how we work together, we need to gradually bring in the capacity. Every person that comes in needs to be able to up level the capacity of the entire space. and that's where does that mean? That means, say, for instance, that when somebody comes in, they are fed, they have people are offering teas, there's there's lots of different spaces that they can interact in, they feel relaxed. But then there is also opportunities that are made clear to them as to how they can also chip in and how they can help out. And things are placed in certain ways that invite people to come and do something. This is logistic thing. So logistic thing, but symbolically, it's representative of how we intend to do things going on. But because I was asking, what's the positive outcome and you said, you jump into vo about the residency, it's about the inner process of goes into the transformation or aspects. Well, she is a very vain, what does this mean? Okay. So you can explain explain Explain to me what that transformation new interaction has changed and what does it mean and what does it manifest? Because if you tell me that all these residents fail, people before and if you were a story, it would be like crazy then the next residency because the next resency in the same and then you're like, oh, I have this inner process that has been there being and it's been changing and it's like you take no feedbacks of the basic stuff, which is that this thing did not work it's chaotic. And it's like, why is you, you are not processing that and not making another story about all having this inner transformation? might not you not just accepting, okay, there is something about my leading. I'm going to be. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but why are you not receiving food? That's there is a big problem. And you are stepping you are avoiding the problem by going into this transform having this transformation and singing knee and this other aspect that is going on. It's like you are ignoring the big elephant in the room, which is like,. And it's like, no, it's you we don't care about awareness. We want to see if this can be processed and work. Because if it doesn't, the future you talk about, the processress is never happening. Never. It will be a group of one year in the future or it West Celtic, but new things are happening inside. Okay. Well two years after it was scouting, but things happened. And it's like. And then it's like this group of eye momentum bringing things, things, things and then boom, bailouts, cases all this guy do it's crazy. It's like none of that is generative productive and all of the things that you think are productive are so like side effects story that comes from your perspective. But if you ask the other people, what's the feedback you got on Alex? did this person transform you? either as a reader and then he fell out a leader, you can accept as a trickster. Right. Even as a trickster, is trick walk. And you have to question that. Is even you function as a trickster walking? Because there's a trickster that's generates caros and push bondariaries and Right. But it needs to test them you know what's the shadow and what's going on. I get it. And then there is the trickster that's pushed Bundering in a ways that's reactivates rusicrate energy. Right. So it's the same market like.. But there are two different outcomes. Yeah. A level of maturity of the dance. Sure. And I have the feeling that new way of processing with that, there is a kind of if I medicine infantile compulsion to just act out at this and you kind of don't fully care that you justify after one whatever other and there is a kind of a pleasure into being like that. Yeah, and enjoy enjoyments of acting out and you're like, I'm bringing proof, I'm bringing I' bringing the shadow, I'm making the things moving. And then can draw, you know. The joy comes from the knowing where what it's connected to and knowing that reason, that exists. Yeah, because you make your like vision. Well, that's what would be different about the rationalization. If it was a rationalization afterwards, there wouldn't be the pleasure because it would be like, I would just be with the thing that was going on and then having to then reconfigure the narrative as to how this makes sense with me, whereas I'm seeing how this interaction, if you if I'm tuned into a certain code of interacting with my environment, is this artty form, then you begin you see in the stories and the details how this stuff unfolds in a very symbolic synchronistic sense, so that it it gives you this gives you this pleasure in seeing the poetry of it even though it's negative. Yes, Even though it's negative on the short time. But this is special pleasure. This is not rationalization. This is like, you know, poetry, in a sub poetry that comes in your art. And I get this, it's enjoyable, it's like Houson Co City, due style of organizing thing in your head and you're like, oh, yeah, this is even if people don't get it, they will get it. They don't understand. I'm seeing the specific tread in O it connects and the kind of voice moves things sc world to the thing. And it's kind of like your old somebody drug up, you know, and all you see things on for. This is usual. I get you, yeah. The problem is that that vision is not carry on into people. This is not what's in their head. That's true. It's not grounded in reality, so they can see it. And they don't experience. So it's kind of like. Is this reality, you see the closest definition to be a sizer? It's like in this specific, which has spawn pattern and you see things. And for most people, they experience that in different levels. exactly. But U, this processes counter in the head by reality. And then reality comes in and it's like, at some point we have to block symbol. and the grow. What schiz mode is like reality ground, it's like, we don't give a shit. It's like, let's enjoy the full process of me building some bars and me saying those things in that way. And then when I interact with you, you system of protection is that suboric logic on and you're like, hey, Ronald, can you see the trend between this and that? I mean, I understand that the reality it failed. People are talking out, this, blah, blah. But can you see that the trickster play that and it's mean the grow the scale is that it's a sol that like that it's like in the archip story of O arrived with people into the sky of environment, historically. Can you see this pattern? It's like, this is the way it's the fault. But what I would say is that you should be seeing a pattern in the sense that each time it should be there should be an improvement. Like, I'm not expecting you to immediately entirely believe that the strategy that I've landed on is a success, because in the short term, when it's when it's expressed, it's like super disruptive, somewhat less disruptive. Yeah, and then it becomes it's channeled into a creative container and then when it hits that creative container, then it looks entirely differently. you there won't be anything to prove you'll be able to see the results, but of course, for something like this, the results do take. They unfortunately,. The question is, but you want the results. Where does the strategy even come? Why would cultural change require that cle of chaos that level by city? That level of anirectness? Why? Like, on the larger scale you've been? Yes.. Why would be that the strategy? Why is not just all the building or order? Why is it not clarity building voc clarity? Why is it the trickster? Yeah, or the chaos or the inner somebody connecting? which is the path to the future? And this is kind of like tied to your vision and you prophetic ability to receive. And you are saying, this is antenna, this is something I said to some point I said, Alex is an antenna. about what's happening in your schedule. And he's an unplifier. Yeah. So when there's a things going on a little bit off, he's going crazy. Because he's catalyzing the metic somebody called about what's going on. And he's becoming the verser of that, and he's acting out. a profession. And so I said, Alex is a barometer of what's going on. And and basically it's mean that the way you. And this is why probably your relationship with Lorence. You are kind of amplifying what's a bit latent there.'s kind of like, his witnessing you being like that and if he may interview. That's So to be like, okay, what I'm doing is in the right direction. And you're I can do the sizo on fire. You know it's kind of like the volume for him for suspion is like 15. Then when he's with you, like, let's go to science and then he can. This is, I think, what you think is the process of initiation. It's like, that's increase your volume from you in a world. So that's division can unfold and stuff. So this is the relationship that you. He's witnessing you. is articurating and reflecting the vision that you are. And you are giving him the bural back balance, what's going on in the future. took his vision. Yeah. And you are you are underp profit and I can carry this whole because there is something about you. that slack this drive of this push break through the entrop. Right. So I have to take on your vision and be the skido onifier for you on stage. Because I know that from what I'm what you are seeing, that if you're just doing this alone, it's not going to happen yeah. So you need this range ofense energy to not So that while you stay in the game and number two, you get continueing and articulating what's going on with. So this is the relationship that displayed out here. with you. I think that's a very good analysis. And and this is where you are, the antenna of the dishw because every sort of thing that you observe in the regionary songs, the illal world, the idea you collect here and there. I kind of channel into you. into this subric excessive world. that doesn't need to be ded to reality, which is why you can bush to the extreme. The thing that people are only seeing, like, at 50%. Yeah, right. So they have this idea at 50%. Then it goes through you as a lesser. Yeah. And since you don't have this grounding, you can go to 90 of that thing. You can push, you can extend the Latin vision of the day four to a higher degree. And now yeah you have a problem because others thatplification gets back into the world. Right. And then it's like other people are saying, you're going to do those crazy mode and it's like, it's almost like, oh do you contain property this excess that helps to you? Yes. In a way that becomes productive again or shareable again. But the p has been, you are the vessel, you are overly somebody carrying accents. Yeah. And it splash out. Yeah. And so you are putting out, you're doing real thing, new communication cannot be clear. because you are overwhelmed by too many symbols. Too many perception going into you and you are trying to carry the visage for with that. And so people are like, okay, this guy, they feels separation feels kind of alien, yeah. So I get it's crazy why you're talking so much. why you're doing your weird thing, you're not, you know available is an. It's like, this is the result of that excess. Yes. That kind of prevent the the clear communication. Yeah. The clear transmission, the clear bridge between you and others people. Well, I would say that, yes, that is true. It doesn't. It doesn't feel as there's much clarity in there is to me, I see a work as being able to develop what that creative expression of it is. You know, it's in I see it as that it is very grounded in reality and that everything that I'm doing in the real world is in alignment to that, and is in recognition of it. So it's actually showing up in my behavior all the time, but it's just that because it's you're repaying attention to the certain decisions that I'm making in the way in which I'm interacting with speed and pace or prioritization. it's not going to be entirely obvious that there's a relationship between, say, like the symbolic and the schizo with the actual, here and now way. And this is part of the problem That is part of the problem, yeah. You are carrying in an invincible way a process. So you are doing some action that are like, that are like an invincible code. Yeah, yeah. taking that you know, you're doing things to basically apply in a kind of magical way. Enterfassing with reality. Yeah. Like, do and it's connected to the vision. But the other people are like, what's the first as this come from? Yeah, exactly. So me being able to explain this doesn't actually necessarily help you so much, because I can. And that's where the element of me being able to communicate with the group is having the ability and having this this kind of respect for the thing that I' bring and this recognition of like, this is this is worth hearing. this needs to be received. It's a very important thing because otherwise I or at least it feels very important that I can communicate some of this or some of where this comes from gives some kind of bridge so that when I go and do these things that don't make any sense, other people aren't freaking out and they're being like, this is this just looks like a fucking schizo. And this is the moment you psyche is kind of broken because never you explanation, you are touching on that. Yeah, I never got that, because that I was going in via this this was my first experience because yeah, and then we have you don't free want to be fully seen in the deepest part of that r. No, I do. No, I definitely do, but I need to be able to share it very. I have to share it cautiously. But this is me. This is the caution that's makes you sore indirect. This is why you speak for so long. It's because you would like to go directly to that thing and say, hey, I' go doing this, that, that, because I think yeah. But you're already probably have experience in the past where trying to be directly from the esoteric. does not work... And people will shut you down the real and it's create a its stronger of the ideal speech directly, my goal in the world. Right.. And so you became very good about sensitizing, talking about all of the old ID, combining all of the things to. I'll do semblance of a conversation, of an explanation. You can very overly explanatory to be like, look, I can speak, I can communicate, I can share all of these, I understand you. But all of this is like, to suppress or to id, to call polarizing language, that exist, inside of you. Right. Which is that, yes, sko war, The true fact about this. Right. Which is like, and you are speaking so much to kind of reduce the emotional stage. so that you feel like it's kind of like you want to send itrise this, and be like, okay, filter it to. It's like a water filter... So that way it comes out, people are like, oh, yes, it's no, you know. It's like, not assuming that this is a fant entire difference. and you say that in a way, the way you speak is reducing your polarity. It's reducing your shook genuine message. Yeah. Yeah. And you sure I would say erotic nature to the world. Yeah, yeah. shoe eros is cut off. Yeah. So is over, over, over explanation, over the two which shut down the room research that's hidden behind, that maybe you even. I'm not going to say lity ability to share, but it's like, I don't you, you lost the habbit of speaking for that place. Yeah. you, like the cold. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Shit, the r shit that comes from that wall. No, that's true. You lost the habit to speak it. Yeah. And so the other, the superary language, it's kind of like a bre another language. The Shetic language that became the new vehicle for AlexX, you know, to traverse the world. Because you know, if I take the number one, if I take the first car, I would get a crush. very fast.. So you're like, I need to survive in this world to bring this positive acre which is like the are very intelligent, very connected, very or to ID and stuff. It makes your breathe. It makes you, you know, you can connect all kind of people. But that feels vehicle. If you are already using it. push. Yeah. So many people. Exactly. And there are so many collections that were not here what happen. If you just use that, yeah, yeah. You probably will not even connect. I mean, the the best way of using it is simply just go into business. Like, that would be the best things to use, that energy is to find it going into business or like go fucking or go like full schizo, like magician shit. I' mean aianian whatever. Like you I think that sort of that thing that is there, it feels like it needs, it does need a vehicle and it almost needs a specific vehicle to that fits that second synthetic one, right? It's like if I'm I'm tooling all of these different perspectives and trying to simulate what is the vision that we want to get towards, who are the people that are holding it? Who are the people that will really be able to hold it in in terms of the kind of leaders they are, oh, and they actually don't look like leaders at the moment, because they don't have the recognition B, they've been resistant to it and see, you know, their they don't want to have power, but they're the ones who need the power. And I'm almost kind of like carrying this first vehicle to be like, well, this is a pushing mechanism. So like, once we've we've established the field and the field, it needs to move through into its kind of acceptance assimilation with the mainstream or the larger culture, you're going to need something that's able to just go straight through it and just be be that kind of piercing function. And I don't think that I actually have the piercing function itself. It's more that I have the force that exists underneath it, and then it needs a container for that to go on. And that's where I might speculate that Lawrence is a way of being able to create that gain art projectject, container, and creative outlet, that then that force can then fire through in culture. But I still think the kind of, and then where I would say that you are playing a vital role is being that kind of that shield to the blowback is that as something enters in, because if we do things to be able to create new conversations to get people talking about like reopen philosophical components, and we there needs to be a robustness in what that message is that's being brought. Like I can maybe bring some of these core messages that are sort of, you know, these these pathways into this kind of non-dual, you know, a total alignment, integration of different dimensional shit. But like, it needs to have a philosophical and like, a lot of logistical robustness to it that I don't think I necessarily have either, you know, it's like, I'm gonna go a little little bit further about this two baker. Yeah, I think it was a good friend. Mayan fishion here is that the key for you and future is to find the key to be number one.. Which may destroy what we doing here. And destroy events of relationship. And who made a sort of orientation that you are in your life right now. I would say that this is this is the representation of it, right? That is. It's getting a right structure you're seeing now is basically a secondary phase of this energetic explosion being brought into the world. I I've spent my I've been able to now that I first, the key was thrown away. Then I had to go start moving back for the key, find the key, unlock the door, go inside, you know, and drive that vehicle. Again, take it for some test rides. Then I had to then I needed to bring it into a space and then see how it was metabolized and see and sort of explore that within the realm of art and within the realm of the strategy that is in involving, which was in plag drive. And then after that, there's these cycclical, small little moments of it that are there to be able to develop how it is it becomes a game, it becomes a creative container, and an outlet as opposed to just an explosive tricks force. So this to me is a very crucial component because this is an event that is not like any of the others. All of the other ones, I am merely a participant, my value is quite unknown. I don't have all the recognition of the people there. There is no. I'm not. I'm not seen to be coming in with anything of particular importance. And so each time, any of the explosions that I'm creating, I'm just gonna tamp down on, I'm gonna get kicked out. Whereas this is the one time in which it still gets tapped down, I still get kicked out, but you gonna bring me back in, because I help make this place run. Like the thing, you know, the thing that we're living in is the is the effort that it takes under the surface to be able to make sure that all these things are functioning, that we're able to get pl power one and we're able to pitch this person and we're able to get some money and get this stuff together, make sure we got all the food and you know, I'm doing all this stuff in behind the scenes that is a demon is trying to show this capacity. I don't know how visible it is necessary, but that's essentially how I am proving that it's working in my own way of showing up in the space and what I'm be able to create with it. You know, you works, I can only evolve it forward if there is some transformation development in expansion of capacity that then allows us to work together on on a greater scale, which hasn't necessarily been proved here. But what is different is that what I see is this trigster archetype has been metabolized by a group. It's a messy process, but there is there was a before, and after and it's still not quite in its kind of like utilization. We kind of haven't really plugged it in. We sort of generated this, you know, this energy is now like, you know, it's there, but it's somewhat contained, but it hasn't yet kind of been turned into this sort of leadership capacity and then been able to transfer that on for Lawrence and then create this leadership cucleus and that be able to kind of go in a certain direction and then that carries everyone with it as well, because we all want to because then I think when the vision is really direct and we're all moving towards it, then it would be it would gradually become harder, I think, to be in this space and play the role you're doing now, because if we were uploading our capacity, if we would Now we're going back to cycling into your one direction. Uh, okay. You see. Let's keep us on whatever the area... This is how you see, you circle conversation. Uh. You were speaking about this thing about acre and the core surf, and then your own similarary vehicle took over again. And it was like, oh, look, now we can do this. And then after we met ag organizing that, and I think yeah, the sister is walking, and then this morning are if you play the on, don't, it can't walk like it is like you are coming back. to a circle. You didn't get to coughing like, I think I want to go. So I want to push it further the two baker. Right, right. I think. If I may ask. Do you think the tri trickster is related to the first veaker? Like, is it the reminiscence, other last resistance, or the the kind of the fantum, the ghost of the vehicle number one that are hunting vehicle number two. Um, I thought the way I was reading the metaphor was that the vehicle number one is this. I don't know if it's the trickster. Maybe it's.. Oh, theology is the rule Alex is to reach with his own rights, strange language and strange process. And to be interface into the world, your vehicle number two. Right. Which is the very explanatory, very vis, blah, blah, blah. You know. And so I just translated.'s the trickster that Crisenely happened here is the ghosts of the energy lying there. I think it is the energy lying there is what I would say. It is the vehicle seeking a.. A great shout. Seeking a place that it wants to live, it wants to exist. It wants to affect it wants to it wants to be expressed into the world, but it needs to have a certain vehicle. And that's where I's what I ended up learning about what it was that was the power and responsibility and why there was initiation and why there is a responsibility around is that you can't just explode it out into the world. You know, there is. There is a feedback mechanism that happens, and Which is why you have to signary. Which is why you have a secondary vehicle, exactly. I need to go. If I just went to every community and then just started, you know, going in my fucking direction, then I would I would be. I would gradually be a terrible reputation in those movies. I wouldn't be able to find the right people. I wouldn't be able to hear them. You know, I wouldn't be able to listen to how they think about things, but I need to be able to receive more up until a certain point, then I can move forward. What if. What if. Possibly. Yeah. The key for you to do developments is actually doubling down on the crazy. And yeah, not even having to less and less on the and assuming that you are really deep down that person. And it's kind of like.. Can you play with the war, but without the interface hiding you? Yes. And this is why I have this strange perspective that's possibly, in your future at some point you will not longer play this world of like being the or the po, like propheticcer, but you will go all out into like you was thinking about business, but I was thinking more about some form of art or business or Hebates. Like your own thing, but related to the communication or the bridge of that world. Right, right. Without trying to unplify some sort of vision of the future to prove that what you are doing is important. Yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So my orientation that I've seen for you is very different. It's not even like if I push my my thing here, it's like, you may kick yourself out. from what you are doing right now. To go all out into craziness, yes, to go back to vehicle number one and be like, "Is it possible to go back to the world and actually face the demon that I trying to repress my true angage, my true expression. My original way, like true poetry. Yeah. I would like to speak my true poetic language to this vault. Yes. Right. And this is like the final message from my X. Like, I want ultimately to speak my po But now you have to take on the turn indirect laugh of being like a visionary, of supporting like other style of vision and amplifying that so that the the true crazy happy way sc of like 20% in the background. Yeah, you Right. It's mostly very cool number two doing the interfse But the cost of acre number two is that you true voice has been lowered. Yeah. You should roar energy, your true errows is playing down. Just so you can be more accepted. recognized by the role. So you's like a tradeoff. It's like you want to be accepted, seen by the role, in the way you think it will work. Or are you willing to balls deep into sucks is deep deep energy. Yes. So this is the dotomy. This is the challenge that I will push you. This is the challenge that I've been with? Yeah. Is. I see it is that there is a point in which I will not be doing. I mean, I see it as that each time I express the trickster, which is also somewhat like the magician archetype as well. It's not. Um. Because in some ways, it's it looks like a rising of this authority that... I'm almost sort of drawing from this higher consciousness itself. Like, I'm making this statement that I can see with a certain clarity and I have an authority in terms of what I can see that you can't see. And that is that is an unusual thing to be expressing in in any situation, really, but, like, it's.. It doesn't make sense, basically, unless you're already in that place. Like, somebody who is somebody can have ADHD or maybe something similar, you know, they might also have had similar experiences to me and then they'll find a place in which they can channel that and if they are in if they are in a position of authority or leadership or recognition of that, then they're able to truly step into that into that power and that thing that they may have expressed won't be a negative at all. But if then if they if they're not able to challenge it in the right way, then they could also just be a kind of a totally dysfunctional human being. It can go both ways. And I would say that. By me expressing it in spaces with other people, you learn a lot about how what this tells you. It teaches you teaches you things as you go. That are really valuable in terms of the mar strategy. You know It is. a more super slug But it costs way more, right. What would it cost in terms of? The true is like, you have to to get there. To speak that true language, to be that of eyes during. Yeah. And. I believe that's why I did in Play Drive, actually. Well, just as part of this transformation was a true relationship with the the density and like, degree of that. So sort of an energy that you bring here makes sense in that light, if there is this thing inside of you that I love to speak that insanity language, but you are going with culture.. Yeah, exactly. You are putting one step here, you put one break here, you'll see what the reacts, that you, you put another break or the they do, that you will remove it. It's kind of like this thing to feel very slowly. Yeah. This is I think. It must feel like a wounded children that's trying to go back to the world and they don't either have been beaten up. And they want to avoid being beaten up, but they want to connect. So it's like we're making this slow move to be alive again. I think potentially there could be a quicker pal. if that wasn't the case. If my story was different, if different things that unfolded, But you're right in that that resistance to the openness of it, say, for instance, I might film some of the rituals that I do, but I don't share them with anyone. And I feel a little like there's a what I want to get to is the practice of being able to share these with other people and then feeling, but doing it in a way where I'm where I'm going by the intrive feeling of trust. And so it pushes me to build trust with other people, and it eventually becomes a representation of trust there. I want to connect this ritual and you not shaving you a film with your strategy will be alchives, because you are actually doing the same thing. But she's holding back. Yeah. I want you, you say we want people to be seen and instead like that. But then you want to create this card system obscurity, yeah. To obscure again. So it's the same thing of, I don't want to shadow rule direct message, like the r filter. And the people that get into that. And this is where we're going into more natural damage is I thought the sort of people around that are reasonates with those with this indirectness, because that you share the same style of wound or the same style of, you know, way of being into the world. And part of your vision is, I think, wanting to help other people like you that exist in the world to re access that thing back. Yeah, to put themselves out into the world and be willing to share themselves vulnerably. And this is what you mean by reasonably using the transformation, so you see all people talk from being in physically saying, witness how you can learn again. how to speak this and say it to your language. into the world.. Because it has this this link to the esoteric. There is a necessity to and this feeds into our own free will and willingness to be seen, is that I also want to be able to provide this two other people. If I can if I'm the one who has very vulnerable media that I that I would be to be uncomfortable or at risk, if lots of people just were able to see it, or it could just create some fucking you know, cascading spiritual energetic dynamics that I'm not aware of or something if we want to have our imaginations go there. But if I can go from that place and be building trust with other people and having a system in which I'm able to then transmit this information to other people, I am then doing the role of transmitting, while at the same time creating some sort of esoteric vibe based system of intuition that is able to pass this on, and it means that other people can then use that exact same system. They can be able to bring other people into their world in exactly the right kind of membranes that make sense to them based on their trust. So in that way, that's kind of what I'm that's why the check-ins me are very important because it's like, we're building trust. We want to continue to do this. And as we do this, I'm much, I'm going to be more and more willing to share my entire self. And in that process, we can then figure out how do we then share this with the world and how do we share ourselves with the world? And because that journey that I'm on is the same one. 100% service. Okay. Yeah. And this is where the true cord divergence come between us. Okay. Is that I don't need to have these indirect language or those tools or help to communicate or to translate or to use this medium, which is why I have no resonance, because it doesn't fulfill or tuction to anything inside of me. That you want? So this is why in the game there is not this necessity or exchange through that medium. I'm not like, oh, I need to maint and play and go out, or play this game with the archive because it's going to be important. or whatever. I don't have this urge because I don't have this sort of exist or problem. I got that sense. Yeah, yeah. So it makes sense in this sense of if you are. This is why, when I'm thinking about nature did I mean, this is the DNA of your natural. Part of that you, and part of Lz. way of insurfassing as we God, and all for him, reaching vitality and feeling alive is true medium like dancing, music, doll and stuff. So you share that interface to be your yourself again as a process. And this is a core DNA part of Unitro This is not something I can change or I want to change. It's like, this is you, this is your world and this is what you do And this is the world my world here will be limited by the cause here name. It's like, this is not my game anyway. This is not my vision. There is nothing to be integrate. I can't stay on another perspective and be like, oh, look at all these people are trying to reach vity, aosp play, games, like, true on means. With these small resist of interse, as will mean, you know. And it creat logic, who's there? Who's not there? Who's attracted? What's out of reaction there is to us? Why does it need this sort of trauma and resolution, and then talk afterward? And even I was surprised by journey, emotionality. When I saw him was at the other evidence, the wri. He didn't have that aspect.. showing her. That's true, yeah.. He has both this out there. And at the same time, there is a r containment to an old control that. does with that. He still asking what's financial. You know, he's looking for a certain style of validation recognition to understand what to do with that thing. You know. I didn't think I really saw that wrong from now. And I was surprised. I was like, oh, okay. So you share something in common with what's going on here. And. And yeah, it was that co questioned about the rule and the function is like, yeah, tell me, you know, who I am to me or to be able to act. And you all of those games and all of those things around. Yeah. For me, to takeaway is this world and investigation and seeing the full shape of wider this rock looks like that. What is trying to do What is the problem? This is how they, in know, when you talk about the scene here, it's this is how in our vision. We are trying to be alive again, be ourselves again. This is why it has so much connotation of therapy around it. Yeah, it is a little bit like that, because you are entering back into this childlike state, essentially, where, you know, when I'm, if I'm in true revelation, that's what it feels like to me. I'm like a child. I amment with reality. You know, we're seeking to bring people back into this psychedelic way of interacting with the world. But we want to do that in a way in which you can still be functional in the world. So that's where I would say that I'm seeking this balance between the two in the sense that I can go off and have a fucking vision quest and live on the streets and like, you know, go deep into my fucking divination practice and be a total fucking schizo and then I can come back into a residency and then I can try and then I can, you know, restart certain processes and put the fucking dishwasher on before we go to bed and make sure we go, you know, and and try and come back into that role of supporting the physical and the real. And so, yeah, I guess what I would say is that to me this is this is a vision that this is a vision and a state of mind that I would be very surprised if most people didn't want. You know, it's kind of like there's.. And this is where it's a universality to it that makes it's look crazy. This isn't. In the yeah, in the assumption that like this is.. This is why I will the light. I agree that And then there, I can do like. And I' be like, stop. In the sense of it being a universal thing. Okay, yeah. What's his universal is yes, people do want to find a pure expression. They want to speak the true emerge. They do the same question as you as That's what I'm saying. I want to be my ral self to the world. This is univers. But the process, the way you do it, the interface is not like I don't give a shit about card to express myself. all the things are doing those street. It's like, let's not mix things up together and think that our world is too old. No. This is not true. And No. That's. And this is where you have the assumption that's why are other people on this No, no, they are begging for it. And they're like, oh, I cannot wait to meet them and to who. It's like, no. As far as I've seen, this is what people have been begging for. Everyone I've ever interacted with, I'm trying to observe is sort of like, what is the thing that is the thing that you're aiming towards? Where are you trying to get to? they want to be here. In this in this experience? Yeah. I mean, this is this is at a very early stage in what what we're doing. So I don't really expect that anyone around the everyone around the world. That's not the universality of what's going on. We're doing it in very specific stages. Tell me what to doivers. Universality is that that interaction with the world that has this psychedelic nature. This seeing the world as conscious, interacting as if you were in a communication relationship with it, extending your cognition, having this extended awareness, this kind of godlike state, being able to interact with the world with a sense of sacredness. This state of mind, and this way of being, I think is a universally universally desired state in some form. When you experience it, then you know it's the same as if you do lots of meditation after a while, you'll then be like, wow, I didn't know that I can even feel this way. I only would have known if I, and now that I'm here, I never would have imagined what this feels like until I've gone there. And so I can be quite sure that that feels as. And you've been other human beings and other networks are trying to do something similar to I would have thought they are. Yeah, yeah, I would have thought they were doing.. What this is, is, and what this looks like right now is a very specific strategy of how to get there. And it involves things like cards and it involves things like certain narratives. from that to this universary thing. That takes time and experience. You have to experience it. You have to be gradually broad into it. It's like we're providing a psych.. If you want a psychedelic experience, you've got to kind of ease people into it. Well, it would be an entire experience, in the sense that there would be certain languageanguage, copy of how to set a vision or how to make it clear. Like that transition makes zero sense. Or do you move from this two univerivers are love God connected to nature? zero, zero. There is no. I sense? No, it does.ic. Yeah, becausethough it's just missing, you're just missing most of, I mean, it's it's not going to make sense immediately. Like, that's the problem with this. It does take time. There's a lot that needs to be kind of put in place for it to be like, oh, I see why it needs to be this way and this way and this way. But, you know, there's there's such a massive gap between this philosophical component. You knowing step by step what is necessary to see that.. I mean, when we're talking about how this progresses into the future, we're talking about, like, a scape of peoples, right? So I am I'm connected to that state myself now.. even more so near the side of the residency. Or during this kind of tension vision questions, et cetera. Now, I see it is an importance for me to be able to maintain that state and be able to understand, interpret, work, with it, utilize it in my creativity, in my expression, and keep it on a certain maintenance, if it's very all over the place or if it's very cyclical and it's very extreme. If I'm just growing up buying loads of stuff, worse is the relationship, everything starts to breakdown, you end up having a big crashes, et cetera, which is mostly how this is experience when people unknowingly just get it. Whereas what I'm seeking to do here is to metabolize that same perspective and energy into a community space and be able to impart it onto other people. Oh. how you would do that is that, well, first, there needs to be a any kind of comfortability with that. that energy existing. And that's why I would say there's this metabolization process of us going to the lens of like, okay, Alex is connected to some weird ass shit. I'm no longer fear it because we've gone through the fear and out the other side. It feels like it's a known thing that I can work with and I can interact with. And then... my intention is that I want to be able to provide this for other people. I want to create experiences in which they enter this state via the experience that we take them on. That would be through the game. On the small scale, I'm more interested in just being able to impart it onto Lawrence, because if I can impart the same kind of energy into Lawrence, he then steps up into a leadership capability. He's now able to be sort of, you know, super dialed in and juiced up. He's able to sort of like take the lead and then I am actually very supported in that because now he's able to take a bunch of stuff that that I don't need to take and then I can just be this energy underneath and then he can be kind of like directing it and guiding the attention and all this kind of stuff. So right now we are includpave on target initiation spiritually into Godhood, toward you, to ours, to see us a proof of work. Yeah, I'm I don'm not particularly I don't feel very rushed in that I need to transmit this to Lawrence immediately, and he needs to match me in this state of mind that that I'm in, that we want to transmit to other people. I don't see this absolutely necessary. More what I'm interested in right now is us moving into a realm of capacity first, that we can actually achieve we can do more with what we have. So that's in the way of us actually kind of establishing certain establishing the processes of the residency. I'm looking at this less in terms of like what this residency specifically can necessarily develop right at the end of it and more, how do we make sure we've got all of the components in a residency necessary that when people are being added in, they're able to curve tune into the culture and the environment and then when when they're interacting, there's an acknowledgement of how this works, how, what are the expectations, how you play the game? Because what I want to physically be able to do is enable this place to be able to host more and more people so we can have it like an art gallery. The people are coming into, they're getting they're getting that experience. They're getting this sense of wonder and curiosity. if the experiences not share even to one person. You mean this state of mind? Yes. Mm hmm. I mean. I think if it was, um.. I mean, it might be a very difficult state to access, potentially maybe I'm more open to it because of my human design or something. But, like, I would say that. I think these states are accessible. I we can access them in smaller ways as well. You don't necessarily need to be owned. It's not like you just break through and then you're in that different same mind in this fucking. You can have a peaky experience, it feels as though everything is happening for a reason. Everything is this significance to the moment. There's a feeling of like we have that at festivals, for instance, so just a remark that when your first se feeling that you said, about why you are those experience, you are opening up a path where which is part of what I mean being out with my sister. But basically you are assumed that maybe the reason why you are receptive to sports he covers a predisposition And so if predisposition is true and people have different access or possibility to translate or the divine. This mean there is an aspect that is not really transmissive or. Because who taught you? to get the if this is a metab thing and it came to you? Because of your dark children? That naturaluralment has no prior training on in education. So you mean there are some people in the world that have archetype, that are more receptive to the divide as a baseline. Yeah, you know. And from there, the question is not sub much about although you transform people so they get there because it was. Yeah, right. It was a metabolate thing. It's translate this experience in a way that guide or help people or magnify what they are, you know. But without the expectation, that they should be as close to God as they are. No.. So this is the rule of the the kind of magical cast. It's to be the closest from God, and do the ray. but not the expectation that the known magician type are supposed to be there. doesn't make sense. Right. Right. So, and I think you have to assume that, okay, this is my path, this is my bag. This is my ability. And where are you, I think it gets problematic is that you going to use it is not grounded and you think that you see the universal path and that you have to bring more people and that some more people are begging or they need that without free shaking, feeding the world, if this is true out and not accepting that there is a limit in reception. There is a limit in reception. That's true. So I know. And from there saying, okay, if there are limit to reception, and my wall is not like necessarily in the infinity, my message is not for everybody. One is accept. I'm reading aurred for who can receive it? Yeah. And that's this. And so you remove theiversality, you remove the brosity ball to go. This big project is civilizationations. That's as the way you want to fame it as a magician, as a shaman, you have this proximity to God. and you can serve as a reet for those who like it, for those who are in tune with your game. and accept that the meta game of life is that the princes of people that have different disposition, that feelear all the God. that want to play different games. And even if you translate and you say, you want to be closer to God to nature, to the world place, to play fully, don't be yes. But that's yes, does it mean I want to play y game. It means this is un universal thing in itself. But you process, you want surf as, you make your ab your style, US, that's not like. And accept that as you call metaboric reality, very much like you, they were born as something else that cannot hear your message. And that's it.. Now trying to convince or expand No. No further. I mean, that's what I would say is the. is how this information is ever transmitted, is through people's. There needs to be a curiosity and a respect for it and a way in which there's like, it has to be a co relationship if you go and just try and share deep shit with people, then it's kind of baked into the fabric of how this, how this stuff is given. That's why I think in. I do see it as something that is a universal pattern. It is a universal pattern. It's something that shows up everywhere. So if you are just, if that's where there is this, this power of being able to interact with it that is gated behind initiation. And that's why I felt like it was important to share the story of the finger in its detail because that is an entry point into the initiation that I went through to be able to be given access to this. And I don't feel like I would have gone through that if there wasn't some interest in that being expanded to the world. But it is going to happen, as you say, it's not going to happen. It's not going to go from here to universal. It needs to go through a particular group of people in a certain order. So that's why I'm saying I'm ordering everything. I'm trying to order, I' this is designed for a specific kind of people. The cards, the structures, the things like this, all for a specific kind of people to begin with. It's not for the average person yet. When there will be ways in which it's able to go and expand out with an interact with these different people and be able to bring them into this world and it's not all going to be esoteric, it's also going to be, you know, similar kind of stuff that what Jay's doing. community gardens and being able to use your imagination in certain things. We'll have something that's more solar punk it's secretive and then something that's more visible and always be playing with this gradient between what is known and what is hidden. And in that way, it is just it is in many ways this vertical, cult like relationship to a specific strategy vision way of going about something. It does have it needs to have an openness of being able to allow different people's games and structctions to be able to form into it, but we need to provide something that says, you step into this and you know what you're going to get, and it's self- similar and it relates to itself and it makes sense and it's continu it's adaptive to new people that are coming in with new ideas and so it's an evolving game, but there is going to be people that are designing it and it's going to work for some people or not other people. But as long as it works in the right kind of order in that it's going to it's being established and as long as it's attractive to this scene of people to begin with, then there will and that will enable this anti fragility to be formed around it, this governance process, this this way for the economics to actually being kind of grounded in things for them to expand. Don't fall. Yeah, but cool question is is the all the core people even fullyical bits? Because if you can do the step one, then there is no step to step three, step four. Exactly. So, Jeremy needs to be convinced that I have some authority, I have something there. Maybe that whole dance was necessary to get to the point where he's saying, you have power over me dude. I don't I don't know how to interact with it. This is the dynamic I know you're seeing seeing something, and I don't get it, but I do trust you. getting to that stage is something very important. Getting your buy in and your belief and your that will take time because I think we do need to go through the logic and the strategy and really like look at this and why like because I totally get where you're coming from and I can see why I wouldn't make sense because there is there is it's scattered and the way that we've explained it so far is scattered. And so there isn't much sense to it, but in my mind, that's how I'm approaching this whole residency is that I'm not like the sharing with the world will come. I'm not I don't need that to happen immediately. Well, what I'm looking for right now is the recognition belief of the people that are here and who are brought here, I value their staking of something. I value their I'm awareness and understanding and ability to pass out, you know, whether something is is aligned or not aligned. I'm trusting that the archetypes and people that have been brought into the field are here for a reason and they have something really important to bring and that and even if it takes a while, even if it's not all totally shared here, or why this process of doing this authoritari dance of authority or dance governance or whatever is getting in the way of shit, then we're still connected. We're going to have more of these. This can be ongoing, we can still receive different people's opinions. As it moves, as it provides more capacity, as it grows in momentum, there will be even more information coming our way of like, hey, you should do it this way. Hey, you should do it that way. And so on. But there is, I'm going by the assumption that that is coming, but my focus is here and now and with this group of people that I see as being the most high leverage people, the we can get into the space and that have the codes that are needed to work with this one. I think part of the key and the problem, one of the reasons why I think part of this network is stuck and we run into loop is that you have to rely on your secondary vehicle and Laurence says to always be amplified by the secondary. It's kind of like there is above and groundedness on both of your sides. and the one of the reason why is most people are not fy Bain or they are not really going into the full vision in the way that you wish they would go. is that you are not yourself the true representative, the true fault of that, because you are actually unogr, your way of speaking. way of being is actually a useful on that vehic same. Yeah, I think it's kind of like when you speak to me. I'm receiving 5% of your true vision. Even if you say a lot of thing and you explain it well and stuff like that. And because there's been these habits of being in the world and could like shut it down and they're language. Yeah. So it's not that I don't like your vision, is that your vision, as they are even really vis sh. Yeah. Yeah. So, you're not going to reach the earth of people if you speak for the surfers. You speak from theollection, you speak from the music mode. And so they look at you and be like, okay, otherwise it's field or does it moves me. It starts reaching my soul at all. It's not reaching the soul of all the people because they're like, yeah, what are you trying to do? What are you trying to part into me? If yourself as the as the carrier of this you are not connected to you first language. To your en role, you know, and if you are speaking true language, things would be very different. I think Lots of people who live immediately, like they will not see back. They will not even they will okay. They will trigger them, they will be like, oh, fine It's kind of like I can connect with you up to 10 20, then when you go past 50, it's like, okay, you are very different being. Like, I've not made to be friends or connected to a vacation. You know, like they will realize that steps are But when you speak that language, it creates a f bridge. Like more we can organate. We are in two days together and stuff like that. And it's hiding the superarity of your nature and your vision, which is more radical, more Curtish, more extreme. If it were in its literarian version. And it would cut off like, most people like, what the fuck that? I don't understand or it doesn't tresonate it' stuff like that in. Instead of staying around and slowly break this dance off where you're going, what is this girl is which kind of keep things in a nropic motion. And so I believe that part of your resolution pathway is to tap into that number one vehicle and the truth is X. Yeah. So I will not go to all. I see an integration is happening between the two and it has the qualities of being held by a group. I think that's also the component is that by me expressing, as I'm I express one version of myself, suddenly this other version comes out and then I'm I'm driving with a different vehicle. Then as things kind of progress, I'm somewhat integrating the two together, but really really, there's still a difference, and I think you're right about that. difference not really being. As the number one rise, like you get the glimpse of fixer bud shaman and one. It rise in the volume of the concoction.. This is the moment where people. When it reaches a certain point that if it was there immediately, I would have left. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of the same thing, but delayed. Yeah. It's like to process day a certain time and then they only see 20% of you. That's fine. Yeah. And then once they reach 40%, that's not all fine. Well, that I would say is because I'm seeking to find the alignment. I mean, if you just if you just release it immediately, then you end up like. The other person is going to make an assumption, then you're likely not going to be able to get anywhere. Like, you actually, there is, they're making judgments early on and you're also making judgments as well. So I need to be interacting with somebody and hearing them and being like, how out of alignment am I to this person? Like, do we see the same thing? And I am going from the belief and the assumption that we do see the same thing, we are very aligned and we have like, why? Because of what's being said, because of the way like the things that we're talking about, the things that we're expressing, the things that we believe, that we're paying attention to. If they're saying if they're saying stuff that I entirely almost entirely agree with, there might be some different differences in strategy or whatever, but if I think that we have values alignment, then I'm going, I feel as though I can demonstrate something that is going to put them off and is going to make them think, oh, fuck, who the fuck is this guy? Maybe I maybe I don't maybe I don't resonate with him or whatever. I'm accepting that because I've accepted that this person is someone that I could work with. I've accepted that this is someone that I'm willing to work on behalf of and be involved with. And so I don't need to make any more judgments on them. They're going to make new judgments about me. It could create, you know, this different relationship. Me and Ome, for instance, we had some fucking fire conversations. I really enjoy getting to know that guy, but we leave in a negative, negative state. Am I do I feel like, you know, I have I lost something massive there? I don't think so. I think me and Mom will see each other again. We will be able to have this conversation. We' be able to get through whatever it is. But at least he will have had an experience of what that energy is and he will be part of that journey of it becoming into an integrated force. Because there will be a time in which I will, you know, I won't need to be that much of a trickster. I will have more of an integration when I'm speaking, it'll be coming from a certain truth. But I will have already proven the kind of benefit of it before before that. You were very a healthy attachment style of way of processing relationship. They're not going to deal with that. They are the first that willieve you. And Why do you think that? Because who wants to deal with that? Why will we deal with Kos and confusion and bad fear? I mean, go and integrate Yeah, most people people wouldn't need to. Why would the benefits of them experiencing that? Yeah, why? Why would I bother with that? Yeah. Well, that is the question. Most of the time is that there isn't any value to it, why bother with it? This is just a disruptive process. Exactly. But the thing is there is a message that is being transmitted. No, this is where we don't care. Yeah, most people don't care about the actual message. And that's the same thing of like, you know, it'll be like, oh, well, this guy was just having some, some schizop fucking breakdown. a bunch of shit. I don't get him out and disior of tendency and be like, oh, I have a choice to understand them they say and what's going on. They just get rid of it. We don't give a shit. Yeah. It's like moving with my life. I want to do a new thing. I want to have a very favorite relationship. And then there is this relationship where there is heroes. Why? It was the thing, why it's like there was no reason. No, the reason I would say is about the network and the belief of the people in that network. If you believe in my opinion, if you don't like this kind of energy and the expression of this energy in a group and you just rather just be away from it as much as possible, then you I'm not saying you have these opinions, but a belief of doing something ambitious and grandiose and impactful for the rest of society that's going to have an outsized impact on many people needs to be reduced. because I'm only expressing this in a place in which we have there is the capacity to be able to uplevel our leadership and be able to do that. It is because I believe that what you're saying is true is the reason that I'm expressing it. And if I didn't believe you, I wouldn't be expressing it. I would be somewhere else. If you just say that you' were able to do like if I didn't actually believe you have the capacity, you wouldn't be saying this. That sounds really always talk. If Rolin the call, this is why you have the highest level of trust andity. I did, yeah. So, and the conflict only come later we've expanded network, with all the people. And here you are telling me in the call group, in the core groups is conflicted. It's conflicted. Yeah, it's like no. But how do you develop the trust that you would need to be able to work together? I don't see that you're actually able to, like, if everyone is just being friends and they're all being friendly with each other, M developed anything. They need to go through hard crises with each other. No. This is where that's your way of walking. This is what your daughter't understand. You're like, oh, we need to go through things to trust. Healthy peopley attachment style is like, I don't need these shit. I can trust directly because I don't have to play those games and we can just move on. And there is no need for that to bring trust, no need at all. But it doesn't exist to begin with, because I mean, like, you know, there's. Like if I was going to think about the attachment style of like, I'm going from a place of trust. I'm going from a place of trusting the people that are coming in here. Like, when I'm, if I'm speaking with Omei, I'm not trying to assess whether I'm going to conflict that are created in the core group. And you say that is all being that is part of the process. It's part of how we interact with boundaries, how we talk how we have value and how we communicate with each other. In things. And my point is in high level trust network, we don't need to go through that stage. We can already go to the stage after because we areiet baseeline. I've not seen it. That's what's the thing. That's. I've not seen it. And that'ss the thing. I mean, like, in startups, you like, I would say that there are people that are able to be just very functional and then you add in more energy and then they're able to just kind of rise with it and rise to the challenge. I think in this in this network, there is going to be a need to. What I see is that there is a significant amount of pressure that is that we have a dial on that is going to then come our way and we need the capacity to be able to hold it. And so these these transformations and relationships to this leadership and authoritative energy is necessary for us to hold the capacity that we're going to need. We're going to need to do any of this stuff. So in my sense, I think what is actually happening is that the environment is preparing the ground for us to get to that point. And so each but the only difference is most times this is the same replication of what product market fit is for a startup. All of a sudden there's lots of energy that's coming in. They need to really perform. They get into conflicts with each other. Everything is stressful and how you manage that, how you get through it, how are you' able to learn and develop and communicate is how you then build this muscle of being able to do things with each other. And so that's why, you know, festivals will get bigger each year is because they're able to then hold the capacity for each one and they go through those strains. So we'll bring the difference here. For me, this is very pathological. The fact that you need conflict and you think this is a necessary path that at some point, this prepare for the future, like, okay, this is very much like someone that is into toxic relationship, and they justify what's happening there like,Oh, we're going to conflict, but it's necessary for. And it's like the fact that you think this is the baseline is crazy. It's crazy. And for me, it's like, wow, they're starting from there. I'm like, whoa. And I'm seeing others style of interaction and network soccer. I'm like, you can start basically with trust and we build up. It's faster. It's better. It's not faster. No, it' slower Nothing happened and Telugu goes faster. It goes on When that's happened? No, yeah. It's taking a while. That's what I'm saying What are the example of that? What are the example of that process? Yeah, you could look at any movement, anything that has actually turned into something like in that has taken off, there is this there is this process of of of people getting into this mode of being able to interact with each other and communicate where they can be able to hold that capacity. Otherwise, they get there and it doesn't work. So what I'm saying is, is that people, it's like somebody becomes prepared throughout their life based on their life experience to be able to, you know, it's like it's like immigrants that go and move to San Francisco and then their child becomes an entrepreneur because they have instilled in their kid this drive to be able to deal with problems, solve things, you know, they've developed this capacity from seeing and experiencing that that tension problems. And it's not to say that we just create a lot of conflicts and everything will happen. No, no, no. It's about the relation how you interact with each other's boundaries, how you communicate with each other. Me and Lawrence had an argument that had no words in it at all. It was purely body language, me shaking my head, me giving him like one card and then, but we have been able to attune ourselves so that we

It was purely body language, me shaking my head, me giving him like one card and then, but we have been able to attune ourselves so that we can have that we can have a discussion about. why not just not have that problem in the first place? Because then then, because the problem will a problem like that will come up again in the future, regardless. Like in some ways, if I hadn't been expressing this trick to archetype in the way that that I would, then Lawrence wouldn't get worried about my kind of state of mind. He wouldn't remove the, you know, change where the money location is. I wouldn't now be trying to communicate with him to give the money to me so that I can buy food, so that I can start up the reactor again. Like, I could have avoided all of that and that situation never would have happened and we never would have had this argument without any words. But that is, but what I see it for the reason that it has in that that is a small crisis that does not matter, but we have developed our muscles. We have actually been able to we've been able to go through something together, which we have developed our own co leadership. Let's see if I tell This is not one thing. This is This is useful development. What's if I tell you that there are people that already have those? They do? They do. Some people are fucking great at it. Like, and they're running companies and they're doing amazing things they're creating you know, they're leading organizations, running festivals. These are the people that we are seeking to be like. But there are and Weenie also need those people. We need those help and we need others like them that we can see as examples. But our journey is our own and we and that's where I would say is that we want to be able to run festivals and run things like more efficient than companies and so on. But we are not there yet, and we have to, and for us to get, and there is no they' not going to be a forcing function. There's no market that's going to come along and say, hey, we really want you guys to be leaders, we really see who you are, we really see this fucking no, big question Why would the people in the li web on the scene that have I would say strange talent, will pick this place to grow, strange hat, right? Well, like in the world ability that can bring something. Why would they pick that place if it's like this leadership and it shouldly on this drama to greet resilience, while they already been more functioning the work. Well, it's not necessary. Well, I would say that it's the same reason anyone wants to be here right now, is that because of the experience we are generating with each other, because of the potential that they see in it, if the my assumption is that by the time we will be gradually bringing more people into this. gradually increasing that precious situation, there will be actual crises that exist because we're going to need money, we're going to need this, we're going to need to sort out that, we're going to need to run things. And then we'll get into more conflicts and more things will arrive. But I believe that we'll already establish so much already that we will be able to manage those and we'll be able to see a symbolic relationship between them all. And in that way, I don't I see it as the vibe itself, the thing that the people are really going to be attracted to is the experience, the way in which we make them feel, in which they feel respected, they feel recognized there. It doesn't play with their attention. Like all of this stuff, I think is going to be really really valuable to the scene. I think they're going to want it. I think they's going to be more people that are going to want it. But they're not going to want it if they come here and they feel as though it's chaotic, there's dysfunctional leadership. You know, it doesn't really feel like it's being led, you know, where they're paying for food and not receiving it or, you know, ended up spending money outside of it or whatever the fuck. Like, you know, this is. There needs to be a. We need to be able to move into that realm of leadership between each other, which, unfortunately hasn't. We can't really develop that without this kind of pressure mechanism. You, it's only in this environment that we actually really, I didn't know. I didn't realize that I needed to address this way in which Lawrence interacts with me when I'm speaking, where he's trying to be this conduit to the field and then be like, "Hey, the field doesn't move up, go quickly, go further. And that fucks with me so much, which is where this don't fuck with my flow card came from. You know, and I still, we still haven't been able to make it resolve that. And so, you know, you're right. Sometimes I am a little bit like you know, what the fuck are we doing? Like, you know, is this going to work? Like, are we do we have the capacity, you know, is the capacity within within both of us to be able to transform and change and adapt quick enough? But I think there is. I think I think we do have the ability to be able to develop it. And that's where there is a high leverage there. If Lawrence can step into his power and be able to lead stuff, I know that he's going to do a really good job. And so as we both figure it out ourselves, we will be able to be in a better position in which we can do more of this, create more of an attraction towards it. You know, we see the possibility within the scene itself. We're not worried about how it's going to be. And the results need to speak for themselves. We need. If there is no attraction, if there's no interest, if we're not speaking to the network, if there's no activation, the network is the same, then we haven't done anything. I have a proposal to kind of close this conversation. Yeah. I think we did.. This is great, man. I really, I really appreciate this. in-depth exploration. Yeah, So it really articulate, I think, what was going on with your vision I appreciate the honesty in which you're bringing this as well. And more especially what I knew, which was you's primary ve, that I think is part of the key. Like if you ask me, okay, without getting me the war, like system that's youried, what would be the takeaway I would say it's that. the first day for you is the key. But that key is very powerful and the rules. And it may break the way you walk right now. So that's my as it came my message here. Yeah. It's and it may change through relationship through other people are doing in this day for work and stuff like that. And it's like, we're thinking through what is the role Alex trying to do, and then you want to build this secondary vehicle to survive, to be in the world, to connect, to interface this with like other people to basicallyically make sense, you know. So there is a jarrow between the two, you know. Yeah, going on. And I suppose that Ivan you in a Jog is about those two. You know. I think it's a little bit like a character was shown to me, though that didn't fit with the rest of the world. It wasn't It wasn't that that was the real me and that you know, then I was creating this false me to kind of cover it. It was more that I was just me going about myself, having a bunch of, you know, having some spiritual awakenings and you. Yeah, if you spend that, it's not just a broom that. I a slight agstic with man? Oh. And similar laughing going on. his way of being and his language that as being transformed into a more slower specific pattern of delivery. Oh, so he didn't speak like that before? No. When he was younger, he was more open, very smart teeth, direct in news language. Wow. And then there has been some events that happen And he had to build this other vehicle. where he he became more symbolically connected. and were able to reconnect with make a new manual form more protected, more in tune with that. But the rule voice as he had was kind of shifted. It's longer. So he is a in my system is part of the visionary subtype. Okay. But his vision is has become artificially though by the more symbolic and so it starts his rural language speaking. recomposition. Which is why is all, even his own creation, like for the one page card or stuff like that it's like these high compression artifacts which are the way this new brain or new ve walks but it's calledVaker is a bit different. It's a bit more direct, a bit more sensibible and bodily. What is new body is a bit more purely smbolic and ing system and stuff like that. So there starts in him ince, there is a shift from. Lawrence is a weakness at hisco is here to see what people argue them to space, let them speak. articulates. If you remember this b, it was an editor. So he has this thing about observing all the people who walk out and things and he has ste into a little bit more into trying to carry prophetic vibe organization with the thing that he has been sharing and stuff like that. We may have slightly overstepped on these coility, which is at first witnessing people. which is, you can see who you are. You cansecrate the way and without a traditional it's very good at that. This is the archetype. Yeah, yeah. But it's slightly overten by the visionary, like the prophets. Okay. Because you feel like nobody stepping up. in the field to do the walk to activate the regessance, to do the thing is to be done. So there is get of an urgency and people are like, oh, you see this and that. And it shows up that thing. But that's not this whole architepe. This co- archetype is being the guy that witness we are. Yours is more profitish. It's more about, yes, you have a message. to carry. And it's more like bringing a certain vision to the world and stuff like that. So it is relationship. He's witnessing the way you are and the way you are and stuff like that. His patient with Ou states to really get into the bottom of it, and seeex. And and you are kind of amplifying the Latin vision that you was trying to share as you into metabolism and stuff like that. He started to cateorize this new vision. Then there was this composed reaction between you two what you met and that's kind of triggered a small part of yourself about building a vision. But it's still hard to call being a witness. Yeah. observing people already people to speak. That's why it's not that directive. Yes. It's the reason why It's not pushing for example, we need to wake up at this hour We need to do this at this time. We are enforcing that between this hour, this hour, we are doing this together. You know, we should have in a way, maybe add a little bit more older. Do you think that would be quite useful at these things? I think it's. Uh. But now it's straight because it's full have to be an expectation that ingrained in your head directly. A cuc, it is the rule of red resency, Yeah. The rance is too much of a weakness. think first the thing thinking, observing people already. You know, the things going in. And then after that, slowly distillating the vision. While you are more pushhy, because you are the part of the prophetism it's like we need to bring something and stuff. But your prophetism as being cut off from the the filter hill, you know yeah. Because it's veryaker number two speaking and not number one. It is of number one speaking. So you take under space with acron number two, which is at least sterenized. he's the weakness, the supposed to be the guide. But it's too much of a weakness. Yeah, yeah, right, right. And then you're telling your, hey, can you step more? Can you take home the thing to push that vision and ingering that two people and stuff like that? So you have this strange relationship about two false going on there. That's a very good frame, actually. so this this called in a link between you two and then you are the people around this, you know that Amori is resonating with that but overall there is a kind of emotional atmosphere which is more onreceptivity rather than giving order. For example, if it was my residency.. You would directly give our tasks and things to do. Right. And there will not rate all the field field. Yeah. Yeah. Go directly and say, okay, this order, guys. So let you know you had to manage you focus. I would say, okay, at 11, I put the music at 11:30 wake up, we start the things. We show that there we start two at this hour we do this and that and then maybe at night, you should to do something that. It's we start this and this if you want to do something if you want to walk on your thing there's no problem. you prefer if you do it during this hour and if possible we are those hour for collective work. You know? And then stick to that Stamp in a right from the living, driven before you come, even before you came in the introduction and stuff like that. It is the outline and you would like to try this structure and then we will negotiate to that so. Yeah. Yeah. Like for example, oh, maybe we need multi or this time or maybe it's not necessary. But at least we start on this. Yeah.ead of letting the things slow, then they are Much harder to put an A in afterwards as well. And then there are many, too many fruy things So I have my eggs, they have the vision, but there is this is another project which is still nice and then there is rce which is not pushing the thing and so it's kind of to support you is not aggressive enough to protect you. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. So Exactly. You were like, okay, I don't even feel that you can really save me if there is something happen. Yeah. So it's like for the future, what does this mean if right now I am in this conflict with that person and you will step in for me yeah, right So since you like this age like, hey, what's going on with that? Right. That is exactly what exactly. So that's the, this is where Laws architect needs to be, you think he needs to be push it, to give of that both as a guide and a result to maintain the space. In the way that you think it has to be. Yeah, and to be to step into being a leader... Because I think if he can take that on more, then it'll pay dividence. I think he has a good understanding of how to work with that. And I feel like I actually haven't explored it all that much myself, so I am in some ways a little bit letting him kind of take that on and so that that allows me to then experiment with this power, that's bit too strong. and then I'm it means that, you know, I'm not. Because if I interact with it directly, too much. distillate to your number one power Yeah, and now there's a filter which is it Lawrence is there to kind of take the shock. the. Right. Exactly. So we have the peripy effects. which are you to experiment. Exactly. See what it feels and what's going on and stuff like that. and then you can air craft around it. Yeah. So, you know, that story is starting to enforce It makes sense that. Right. Logikor, you know, they say, oh, we' it is the d orikor like effect of the nature. This is what's going on. This is the kind of spirit that are here. is what they this is what they interact, this is the logic. and then in that picture there is me, which as is this kind of transversal ability. For example, at Prapad, when I met F Florence last night, it was like, I was surprised because the pray pad you seem really like into gu game and understanding Lauren. Yes.. And then you roll this football, for this for the like that reenaissance guy, and I was like, I thought you were really into that thing and stuff. And so has there'd been a change between that woman's and now, that maybe we didn't know that a new community or something and I said, no, it's not like I joined any new community or do any other. Oh, I see. He was noticing a difference between activated with this one the other one. Heicing like little shifts. And he was used wondering where. Yeah, yeah. And I say, this comes from intelery. Uh-huh. Like that was a maturation process. I've been in many different worlds, I've seen many, many different things. I've been finding my philosophy myself for a long time. How many years? Yeah. And it's arrived to a point of maturation where my shiftters step to another ever and the thing where very different. So I have disability. I enter any world or any place to go all out into the game, which means like, you should give me cardcraft at the break puzzle, I play with the card the thing I need my own mash things and I go all out. Okay. those't mean I like kids that's my fingers. But you. But what I'm here, it's kind of like An video game. Yeah. I go in and I go all out. There't thing I want to repeat that. After that experience, it's like, oh, I got the email Drew Swamps and that's it, you know, I'm done. So then there is this your experiment and I was like, what's interested me more is like, the concept of the residency, Andrewrew's being there for months and seeing this, just witnessing what happened, what is for and the things that occur with that, you know. So it was kind of curiosity about this, but it wasn't like I was going to getting into the vision or the thing. And I tell Laure swipes from the beginning, I'm like, be careful, because me and Herz, we are not gonna gonna slowly get us. And at some point we will fall function. I said. I' warning you first. I did two warning. Yeah. And I said,ool about that because I know you't see. I know thece for like five years. Okay. I've seen him in different contexts. And I know his strength and his tendency, his shadow side. And so I say, okay, everyone, strange. I come I will play a different game. It's like, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I'm not sure we will free get season City's free sinking and I really get the. Law would be like, yeah, yeah, I get it, I get it. I'd be like, yeah, but I know what it looks like. And this is not what it was like. Yeah, so I'm like, okay. I'm go and we're in process. What. And since he has this witness loads this kind of letting things happen. Right, right. It's like the criticism of the thing is like recently and stuff like that. It's like, how much does it really sinking you know, then it was after the afternoon the next day when we met at the cafe. Oh yeah. He told me that you know, we he was really overwhelmed with everything. Okay. And we like the kid. Yeah, the other thing. And he told me like actually took out the cognitive capability to reintegrate. The download and to shift, you know, so I feel like it has been going on on a kind of rough psychological journey. Like prior to that, it's like a finger that's been going on for a while. Okay. Where the kind of lose this anory to really a believe.'s and a kind of a routine of Oino style. Right, right, right, right, right, right. And it just goes down. But there's no new.. Abol. He told me that what I eat them don't was like, possibly you havegrade, similar to learning about metabodianism. But it's not true to hear an approach that. or integr And in Maya I was like, okay, but I'm not sure even, oh, you will really integrate it. And you know, and in this weakness mode, I know it's like listening to all sorts of people or an IDs and stuff like that, but it's like, what do you really feel and think about it? Like, what do they see? Are you making form all of that? Right. So it's going to make it's going through him in a fry way. then right, you know. It's like at which point does you make a filter and make a decision or cut or stand for that. And I don't do that know. Right. And I had the same conversation with him last night. Yes. And so this is why I' already got my own sharing or pushing is like, are asking me to talk, to share, to do this thing, but you have this kind of openness that does not. solidify. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So why would I do that? Right, yeah. Yeah. Because it's just going to be more information, the state points that that never is correlated to. and then it's floating is like if there's never existed and then it becomes like everyone already. doesn't it make sense. And it's like, why you know why things I feel you. That makes sense. This effect is like, okay. Yeah. This is I say you know, I did my thing and then it how you will proceed, maybe it will take two n yeah, whatever. Yeah. But I'm not trying to per that. I'm not because I understand you know, I put through explaining with the natural division and the way you do it, it's like, I get it, but I'm not trying to check. That's why I'm not trying to check it. It's like, I allow you to do you think. Yes. But that is also basically the same problem that is that Lawrence is doing, is that you're taking the same role that he's in of just witnessing what's going on, seeing the interrelation, not being too attached to one side or the other, and then in that there is a kind of lack there is there is this. There's a lack that's only on your side. Not on my side because I bring this on your side, no. Well, I guess, yeah, you would essentially be. protecting yourself from, you know, expending energy in a way where it might even turn into anything. If I'm not good I spend more energy ming. And Lawrence is better off to make. He's better off to not be only in in the place of a witness, because if he only stays in that and he doesn't take any signs, then it't rest and it doesn't transform. He has to play the rural consolidating. Yeah, exactly. Right, right. He hasn't got the option. You, I would say, have the option, at least. I can do that. I can afford to win this. Yeah, yeah. But each end afford to do that. Right. Exactly. Exactly. When I'm doing building my own thing or not do it as a witness. It's like I collected. Right. I know, we do that. Yeah. Like how you were saying, about how you do a residency yourself. Exactly. Right. It wouldn't be the same thing. It's not as a like, now that I've corrected my vision, it's and we do this. Yeah. But if I you, the residency carrying people to the future or vision, it's like, I cannot just be like, okay, we' send some corperspective and everything just flows from me and oh, it's quite quite doing and stuff like that. But there is no consolidation to I feel like I'm now having to do all of that myself to prio for example, the project that doing all that Or doesn't fe. Is this the most important? Is this secondary, is this stertia reing like Or does it help on pyramid of all to happen? Absolutely.. And doesn't make these filter. So it goes on if it just, everything flows through him, like, oh, it's great, we got this vision. But then nothing that it's it's all just in one out and then comes out the other end. Yes. Yeah, exactly. And so for people that thought, okay, I'm sharing this. It's like whether it go. It goes to a kn leaves the other. Feeling received, feeling recognized, feeling like, okay. Yeah. And especially really cares, but, oh, the thing actually isn't landing. Oh, I'm not seeing the actions change. Oh, I'm not seeing then I can I can because I'm feeling that same frustr as well and that I'll have these communication with multiple times about what what enables me to speak, how I want to get there, how I need your help, all this, and then, you know, it'll I'll see the same reaction happen again and be like, you didn't get any of this, did you? And so it's like, I can see the frustration in that. I can see the frustration in that. And I think that's where I do see that I'm some more acting as a balancing mechanism in that sense of beings non-agreeable in how I'm maybe interacting with certain concepts so that we can box it into like, in making sense in in certain ways. So that's way is pushing you to use the trickster. Uh-huh. No. Because you have to d yourself against the inertia. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so you have to, what is some shit, you know, but just to make things move because is otherwise if it was just it would be like quens you know, like thing goes or back and whatever you want., okay. Yeah. Exactly. So for me, I understand that lack of like less frustration and but it push a deeper question which is can he transform into what you're expecting to do? Which is the deeper fundamentalal problem long term. Yeah. This sustain really that or does the weitness us to be replaced somewhere? Because the witness has been very good at seeing those people. Yeah, exactly. Getting this this person drink and stuff like that. If are I thinking for you position? Yeah, I would think about, is there a third pillow that can carryry the leadership word? Yeah. And then although instead of pushing Robans to say, okay, can you be more direct with people? Can you enforce something a little bit more directly? And pushing him into a nature, which is not exactly his sc he'd be like, do you think this well? Because you to see all of that mostly in the scene and the people and what and speak the language and meet people where they are as af me, I kind of want to push the vision and the number something, carry that you energy to the world. And now I think we need a lot of people which is a kind of a more direct guide or organized person. Yeah, yeah. Which is more concerned about what we make things work, how do we create order and this is not in a responsive position waiting for the go to do this waiting forins to help responding after the flag. Yeah, right, right. And Jeremy is not that person? No. He's too exposive and. Like a bit in a dorder. So you may have to consider and you rather. You' try find anything that the person That's a good question. Yeah, yeah, a good point is I have thought that whether there isn't a necessity for somebody who can play that role of doing the water when we were both creative, so it's a bit like.. Yeah, it's not really about it's just to call where you do it. Yeah. You don't just don't you know the style of creative that like to give order to be ordeering clarity of stuff. It's not like you call Tom Cleans. So you are a magician of the law Rna sense of sending like the energy, the socnty, receiving and then offering that after. And is a more receptive witness that can you know, see those energygent people. But both of you are poor of energy and archetype that are not the organizing type. Yeah. Well, I think I'm kind of playing that role, but I don't think I'm naturally my temper not. That's my fault. Because playing the organizer when because you more in a. than bringing you normal, that's true And that's why you know that Stuko is when it'sing to merchant energy. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not about you trying to stretch out and be something that you're not or having to deal with things that you can. I think right now you have to consider the term feed out that will be an organizing type that have your visual understand what's what's going on and we could balance both Florence I would say, witnessing passivity and you more prophetic and grounded sizo faith and a pole and really respect both on the value, You know, all they bring things to making me the vision alive. But being in focus on, okay, the problemmatic, the direct, the organized stuff, we need to control focus, to actually shave our world to make things work and stuff like that. So this will be my consulting advice. That's good. That's a big on the water.. Ering of what I know from the network to analyze and stuff like that. This is the report It's simplified and understand the word. Yeah, yeah. This is great. This is great. So this is something I can sh after we throw out so you can talk to him with him. Yeah, because I also want to try and see if we can get this kind of like ability for one-on- ones to be multiplied in the sense that you don't have to repeat the same thing you've just said to me to Lawrence. But it would be but I think this does touch on some very accurate like representations of the kind of ways in which these roles are interacting and what is creating because you're talking about stuff that I'm directly trying to address. I see as an important thing for us to figure out. And we do need to figure it out. And it needs to be addressed pretty soon because you know, the more. the more we try and take on, the more stuff is going to come more obvious. Yeah. And so, yeah. No, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. This is this is also great to see. There is a cab that I think I've been sort of hoping for and wanting to see from you in terms of this rather than allowing the thing to fail instead, if there there is some kind of care and responsibility in feeling of like, well, I would hate for Lawrence to fucking waste his time having to. You know, going down this path of Failure, if I know if I am seeing what he's not seeing, you know, and so just this is, I think, a good example of the place I wanted to get to anyway, which is just getting that sense that, you know, you want this to work, you know, you care about it, you care about Lawrence, you care about being able to be in these and you want to see the change happen. But you're also being realistic about what, where your belief actually is at the moment, you know? Because I think that's just going to be where it is and we where where that is. I think, I couldn't the call how much. It's to walk on for that. It's very precise, man. Yeah, yeah. on. Thank you. I really appreciate this…